My dear brother and fellow-pastor, Jeff Crippen, is not going to be very popular with too many folks with articles like these; but I applaud his boldness and courage to speak the truth in this much needed area in our Christianity.
Sometimes I wished that some of these men would just spend three months in some of the places that I have ministered; some of the mental, emotional, and verbal abuse that goes on (and that’s not to mention the physical or sexual abuse) is enough to one weep. Now that I minister here in the lower 48 states, I recognize what a prevailing issue it is down here… but worse, because it is done with such subtlety. Where I have seen it in the mission field it was rather out in the open; seeing it so blatantly has allowed me, by God’s grace, to recognize some of its subtleties and deceptions.
Thank you for you service, Brother Jeff.
Thanks for sharing the link, brother Jon.
Thank you for spreading the word that Piper doesn’t “get it” about domestic abuse. Many victim-survivors will feel encouraged that another man and especially a male leader (yourself) is standing up for them. Survivors have long been silenced, ignored or ridiculed for making this complaint. “She’s just a feminist! She’s crazy, bitter and twisted! She obviously can’t forgive and forget! She’s a woman with the most enormous chip on her shoulder! She’s hormonal! She’s hysterical! She’s making it all up!” ….. ad infinitum. And even if they don’t say it OUT LOUD, many Christians think such thoughts silently. We survivors can tell by the vibes.
It seems to me that only when Christian MEN stand up and shout from the rooftops about the clueless injustice of the likes of John Piper, will the church as a whole start to take notice. Bless you, brother!
Thank you for your encouraging words, dear sister. Only by God’s grace have I seen what I have seen; and by His mercy was upheld. I pray that men of God may not stand up boldly against domestic abuse. May the Lord continue to bless you and you service to our King.
Oops Jon, I think you meant “may stand up boldly”, rather than ‘may not stand up boldly” ?
Good to make contact with you, brother.
would it not have been better to go to John and talk to him rather then share it Public. IF we have ought against a Brother then Go to HIM FIRST. Note First . you gain your Brother not Loose him
Hi Vince,
Thanks for your comment. So sorry that it’s taken me so long to respond. Have not really had time to get on the Internet for any length of time… even when it has been working properly (signal problems in rural Alabama).
I do understand your concern as Christians are those desiring to be reconcilers (Matt 5; 2 Cor 5), following the example of our Master, Christ Jesus, our great Reconciler, reconciling us to God by His holy righteousness and sufficient Sacrifice on the cross; and I do, whenever possible, by God’s grace try to contact others as is available or warranted. I’ll be posting an article later today with just that regard (in fact, it will contain a better explanation of what I will attempt to put forth here in just a little space).
What you’ve attempted to convey was actually misquoted from Matt 5:23-24, and then misapplied to Matt 18:15-20. Please be patient with me, as my answer will be short, but I mean no disrespect as in dismissing a brother (you), or to another who professes faith in Christ (Piper), but as I said, I will address it more fully in a posted article.
Matthew 5:23b says, “and there remember that thy brother hath ought against thee;” which speaks of our responsibility to seek reconciliation when we have offended a brother.
In Matthew 18:15, with regard to a brother that has sinned personally against another in the church, the Lord says, “Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.” The Lord continues to provide context through the recourse if the first reconciliation attempts fail, viz., v16: “…take with thee one or two witnesses;” and failing that, v17, “tell it unto the church.”
This particular instance from the original article I reblogged is not without scriptural precedence, however; it is much the same as Peter being rebuked by Paul in Peter’s separating himself from the Gentiles in Antioch (Gal 2:11-16). This is really no different than your posting a public comment about what you believed to be my error in making this known. You did not come to me privately in correspondence, but neither did you need to; because it does not apply to Matthew 18 (again, more will be in the post later). I’ve posted this publicly and therefore, if I am in error, I should be publicly rebuked. If it is done in love, public correction is the testimony of holiness, not division or derision. My prayer is that I don’t do it in anger or in pride (which all men have a tendency toward, and me especially, the chief of sinners).
I hope this has helped. I will post the link on this comment thread when I have it posted.
Jon, I think you replied well to Vince. The way Vince tried to rebuke you is exactly the thing that Jeff Crippen describes when he writes about how Matthew 18 and how is used by abusers to try to silence and shame pastors who are speaking out about abuse. Here’s the link to Jeff Crippen’s post: (this is the first attempt I’m making at using HTML, so if it’s wrong Jon, can you fix it?)
How Our False Notions About Church Discipline Enable the Abuser’s Secrecy
And Vince, you need to know that ages ago there was quite a lot of discussion on blogs and forums about that video clip of Piper. Many survivors of abuse were outraged by it. Many of us wrote directly to Piper’s ministry, to express our concern and ask him to reconsider his teaching. To my knowledge, no-one who expressed concern received any answer at all from Piper or his team. You can find some of that older discussion if you go to
Emotional Abuse and Your Faith
http://eaandfaith.blogspot.com.au/2009/09/john-pipers-ignorance-is-killing.html
and there is more here:
http://strivetoenter.com/wim/2009/08/21/john-piper-on-submission-in-abuse/
So clearly this concern about Piper’s teaching has been in the public realm for some time, And he appears never to have paid attention or responded. One can only wonder WHY?
Because, as it stands, that teaching of his is enabling perpetrators and endangering victims.
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